Columbia Kermit/kermit.zip/newsgroups/misc.20020314-20021006/[e-mail]_Wed May 1 09:24:04 EDT 2002.msg

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From: Ishikawa <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: a bug on GNU/linux: speed reset to unintended value occasionally.
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:37:56 +0900
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Frank da Cruz wrote:

> In article <[e-mail]>,
> : ...
> : Pseudo random generation for testing purposes.
> : You know I am impressed with the KERMIT, the software, more as I learn
> : more about it (after reading first about it in BYTE in the early
> : 1980's.)
> :
> In English or Japanese? (Was there a Japanese edition of BYTE?)

The issue of Byte where I read about KERMIT was
the original one. There used to be (and may be still) a Japanese
publication which borrowed heavily on
American BYTE magazine including Chaos Manor column. But
I didn't read it often. (It was a subscription only publication.
The office reading room had one.)
I was going to write that too bad BYTE went out of print business.
But a surprise? I didn't know, but an annual version is printed
even today. Please see
    http://www.BYTE.com/

These infrequent magazines that hits newsstand are unlikely
to be imported to Japan and the chance of
such one-time issue being shown at bookstores where I frequent
in Japan is again low so, that is why I may have overlooked it.
Byte and former McGrawhil's Electronics are two magazines I miss.

About the list of books, I noticed that you have
put up a web page of bibliography and announced it
in the news group. Yes, Fujii-san and other Japanese names
came out correctly in my netscape browser under linux!

>   Kelly-Bootle, Stan,
>   "680x0 Programming By Example",
>   Howard W Sams & Co, Indianapolis IN (1988),
>   ISBN 0-672-22544-1.
>
> In this case it was the Alpha Micro version written by Rob Rubendunst:
>
>   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/c/am*.*

I have not looked at assembly programs often lately.
(Not that I don't use assembly programming, but
usually I use only a small piece in timing critical
or need to use very exotic cpu instruction for
synchronization, etc..)
So I was quite impressed at the assembly program listed above.
Never realized that the directory contains source code files
for a totally different architecture...

> And somewhat more sensationally:
>
>   Stoll, Clifford:
>   "The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage",
>   Doubleday, New York (1989),
>   ISBN 0-385-24946-2

I have read this book. But it was quite some time ago, and can't recall
KERMIT mentioned in this book. Oh well.

> In particular, it is perfect for use over UDP, and you might see some
> interesting applications for this arising in the future.

I will look forward to it and may contribute it if I have time.
These days, a certain large software company decided to
regard serial ports as "legacy hardware" and seem to
discourage the use of them.
Problem is that some hardware makers take the words from this
software vendor too seriously and I have seen
now notebooks without serial ports.
I am afraid that desktop PCs may not be far behind in this regard.

The software vendor looks at only the office use.
But serial ports have been used in industrial application
very often, and unlike the software vendor's software, the
industrial application tend to stay for a long time (15 years or more).
So serial ports ought to be available for a long time to come.
I can imagine a peddler selling PCs with "legacy" serial ports
to desperate engineers at hawker's price in 15 years from now.

> : I am saying this because LINUX is all the rage as open source software
> : and it is quite interesting to see the different coding styles adopted
> : for portability. Linux uses different directories to support
> : different architecture...

> There are many approaches to portability, none of them perfect.  There are
> also different definitions of portability.  These days many people think
> portability means that the same code can be built for Linux and maybe one
> or two other Unix varieties, using GNU tools (autoconfig, etc).
>
    ...

> We chose #ifdefs for the reasons explained here:
>
>   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckcplm.html#x3
>

I read the page and it was quite refreshing to read
these do's and dont's.

I think programming KERMIT is quite comparable to
embedded computer programming today.
Often the development tools for embedded computer
systems are under preparation for
a new embedded systems and so assembler/compiler/linker and
realtime OS kernel itself (if it exists at all!)
is somewhat unreliable, and so we need to
take a very careful and conservative approach in coding.

(When I talk of embedded computer systems, I mean
computer systems embedded in *small* appliances such
as toaster, microwave oven, refrigerator, TV,
VCR, and many other home appliances as well as
automotive engine control system and other
industrical controller. Some embedded systems
for industry control system may use, say, Sun
ULTRA pizza box, but most of these
small systems use a tiny single printed circuit board
with a version of 8, 16 or 32 bit computers.)

Now I know why I don't seem to find

    #if defined(FOO) && defined (BAR)

in KERMIT code often if any.

Japanese computer industry has a sizable population
working in the embedded market and they will
immediately see the similarities of
constraints under which you work to their
own constraints.

As for the minor and yet obnoxious differences
among different UNIX flavors, all I can do is
quote "Isn't standard wonderful? There are so
many to choose from!". There is now  SUS (single unix
specification) coming out, but as you and I found out
that sometimes vendors silently changes
the adherence to one standard to the other (in the
case of Sun) or the implementation is very
tricky using reserved bit field for storing
something and misleading to unwary users.

>We like to think so, and if we did not have to focus constantly on raising
>money to pay for the continued existence of the Kermit Project, we would
>spend more time writing books and papers on topics like this (and for that
>matter we would even spend more time writing software :-)  Unfortunately
>there is no other support for the kind of work we do, especially not in
>these hard economic times.

One thing that I have been wondering is this.
How is KERMIT project sustained.

One software project with which I have been familiar is
GNU. I have used Emacs and GNU tools  form quite some time now.

GNU project of FSF sustained itself by
offering free programs on magnetic tapes initially.
I recall buying a few tapes long time ago.
They sell the manuals to programs they distribute
freely. (The manual text is free in the sense of GNU
documentation license, but often it is
more convenient to buy the printed manual. It has
nice binding.)
They also accept donations.

I understand that Windows version of KERMIT is
licenced at a fee.
(Aha, for that matter, long time ago,
I think we bought a KERMIT tape from you. For a few years,
we received hardcopy annual newsletter if I recall
correctly. This was before the INTERNET, and
even before UUCP network was in wide spread use.
We could not copy KERMIT easily and I think I read
that the tape is available from Columibia and bought it.)
But you obviously offer C-KERMIT for free to
users like me.
Does Columbia University accept/solicit  donations to
Kermit project?
(And I am curious and nosy. What is your, er, regular
job at Columbia? Is supporting KERMIT the only job
over there??? I suspect no, you need to do other
dayily tasks and then devote what free time left to Kermit...)

Sorry it is not strictly a technical topic I raise in the
last few articles, but if users can
obtain binary/source copy over the net very easily
then, paying for upkeep of the project is certainly
difficult unless a proper "business model" is there.

KERMIT is one of the few (if any) powerful
serial terminal program on UNIX with good track record
under noisy and flakey connection. (tip is a joke as
a terminal program. UUCP is only for
batch transfer/invocation remotely.)
So having KERMIT project afloat is clearly a merit
to a sizable number of programmers all over the world.
(Right, many now use Windows and there are good
terminal emulators with KERIMT protocol support.
But as far as I can tell UNIX has KERMIT only.
Maybe KERMIT was so good that nobody bothered to
write other serial terminal program.)